McHalal

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McHalal

by bacardiancoke @ 2007-07-27 – 13:43:45

This could fast turn into a can of worms so I'm going to have to tread carefully here.

The company has started a trial in the Southall area of Halal products.

So, is it another opportunistic stunt by our PR department to get another positiive story of the company, or is it a genuine trial with a view to roll out across the country?

Well, I'm sorry to have to say this to all you sceptics out there, but it is a genuine trial, and the news of how it is doing is slowly filtering up North as well. Guess what, according to initial reactions, it is doing fantastically well and is well on the way to being rolled out across the whole UK network.

On one hand it is good to see that we can broaden our range and appeal to people with other dietary requirements, but on the other hand I'm not too keen on the effect it will have on restaurant procedures.

Currently we have to train our team a huge range of systems and procedures that fall under the categories of food safety, fast, friendly service, and general cleanliness and clean as you go (CAYG.)

The problem that some restaurants will face with this new system of working, is that people who are woking on Halal products won't be able to work on Beef or Pork products, and a lot of stores rely on kitchen staff being able to swap between sides at the drop of a hat.

Of course 2 different colours of apron will be easy to understand (you'd have to hope!) but the cleaning and sanitising of preparation equipment will add another layer to cleaning procedures. Happy days!

Apart from that it sounds like a good idea.
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Tags:
- mcdonalds
- mcd
- arches
- golden
- halal
- southall

9 Comments to McHalal

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- sh786 (Visitor)
- http://www.visitsouthall.co.uk/
- 2007-10-09 @ 00:20:43
When are McDonalds going to tell its customers that the mosque right in front of its Southall branch does not consider its offering to be halal?

A HFA Certification is meaningless.
Do you know what their halal guidelines are and who agrees with them?

See Southall article and make up their own minds.
- - bacardiancoke
  - 2007-10-09 @ 12:55:15
  I said that I would answer questions, but only the ones that I know the answer to, everything else is opinion. As I have already said that I don't work as PR then this answer will be my individual opinion not reflective of company stances (you gotta love disclaimers!!!)
  
  Probably about the same time as they'll tell customers about every other organisation that has some beef with them. Sounds sarcastic but I hope you get my point.
  
  You say mosque, but is it the mosque itself or the someone in it trying to make a point.
  
  At the end of the day a Halal Food Authority Certification does appear to carry a lot of weight, and to many sceptics it could look like the Southall Mosque has something to prove, as to say tht certification carries no weight is nothing short of saying that the HFA is a scam organisation, a very dangerous thing to be implying.
  
  For guidelines I would advise you to look at www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk
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- sh786 (Visitor)
- http://www.visitsouthall.co.uk/
- 2007-10-09 @ 17:41:23
"This could fast turn into a can of worms"

"is it another opportunistic stunt by our PR department"

"I'm sorry to have to say this to all you sceptics out there, but it is a genuine trial"

After the above, it did't take long for the McDonald PR machine to go into full swing.

The mosque does not have "some beef with them".
It has nothing to prove.
It has been merely advising its attendees.

McDonalds and the HFA has to prove that the halal certification is correct.

The "Halal Food Authority Certification may appear to carry a lot of weight" but it's certification guidelines carry far less weight.

Take the HFA certfification guidelines to a few islamic scholar and see if they agree with them.

Unless you get overwhelming agreement, the HFA certificate is worthless. This is not an election where a majority of 1 wins the argument.

When I say the mosque, I mean the imams and the mosque committee. McDonald were keen to involve this mosque in the trial process and the mosque was very happy with what McDonalds put forward. Then MCDonalds changed their tune for reasons only known to them.

Forget the HFA certification, ask your imam, if the HFA guideline are correct. I have asked a few in different mosques.

Are McDonalds economocal with the truth?

On McDonalds website, ask if the mosque in front of the Southall branch, which they consulted in their trial, considers their food to be halal?
And See if they put up an answer.

We had a butcher on Southall Broadway. He put up the halal sign. And he did get his chickens from a halal source.
But not the rest of the meat. When he chopped up your chicken, did you get a halal chicken?
Or was it contaminate with the other meat?
Was the other meat halal?

A certificate or a sign alone is worthless.
- - bacardiancoke
  - 2007-10-10 @ 02:07:03
  I'll be honest, I'm at a loss to understand the question that you're asking me.
  
  If you are thinking that I'm a representative of McDonald's, in particular the PR dept, then you are mistaken. As I have previously stated in my entries I am neither someone who represents the PR department, nor am I asked by the company to produce this blog. In fact, the company would probably not appreciate me writing the blog at all which is why I don't identify myself.
  
  I shall answer what questions you appear to have asked:
  
  Will McDonald's tell the whole world that their neighbouring Mosque don't consider a HFA certification to carry any weight?
  
  I dont' know, you'd have to ask them (and you appear to know the site to ask on), but I doubt it as it appears to be more criticism of the HFA than it does McDonald's.
  
  From the way that you have worded the reply, you do seem a little agitated by my original response: I have not intended to cause you any offence but, from an outsider's perspective, the Mosque does look to be making a point of criticising the HFA at McDonald's expense.
  
  I do have to ask from the detail of the second comment: there does seem to be a lot of questioning of the HFA and its guidelines. If these aren't credible, why are they allowed to continue with their practices if they appear to not follow correct procedures?
  
  You are implying at the moment that they allow incorrect practices in abbatoirs, that is a much more serious issue.
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- sh786 (Visitor)
- http://www.visitsouthall.co.uk/
- 2007-10-10 @ 12:26:03
Your comment was
"I'm sorry to have to say this to all you sceptics out there, but it is a genuine trial"

My view is that it is not as clear or simple as that. For some one to state that something is halal, he or she should have a understanding of what makes it halal, other than a certificate like the HFA.

"there does seem to be a lot of questioning of the HFA and its guidelines. If these aren't credible, why are they allowed to continue with their practices if they appear to not follow correct procedures?"

Exactly my point. Who are they, other than a "voluntary, non-profit making organisation"? ie who decides what the halal guideline are and how respresentative are they of the community.
"Stop them" - It's a free country. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can set themselves up as Halal Certification Authority.

Because they were the first and are established they do carry weight. No body can shut them down. Only their credibility can be dented as more and more people question their monopoly and their interpretations.

Strangely enough, the same mosque approved of another store selling halal food (not sure if it was frozen). Was it anything to with favourtism, or no axe to grind or simply because this retailer was following proper halal guidelines. Was the certification by the HFA? Probably but not sure.

So the question becomes, if another retailer can offer proper halal food, why can't McDonalds? I don't expect you to answer.

When I mention a mosque, you seem to be getting the impression that it is merely the view of a single mosque. Has any one gone around to ask them all? Only way to find out.

"You are implying at the moment that they allow incorrect practices in abbatoirs, that is a much more serious issue."

I am merely saying that whether they are incorrect or correct needs to be publically debated and agreed by a broad range of Islamic scholars.

I don't expect you to answer any questions.
I merely raise questions for the readers to consider.
Halal food is one area where doubt is not acceptable for Muslims.
- - bacardiancoke
  - 2007-10-10 @ 19:54:00
  That's fair enough.
  
  Have to ask though, how can McD's be classed as Halal?
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- sh786 (Visitor)
- http://www.visitsouthall.co.uk
- 2007-10-16 @ 20:58:54
It is easy to get classified as Halal by the HFA.

HMC (Halal Monitoring Committee) would never have passed them.
Nor would the Islamic Institute of Jurisprudence

In order to retain and/or increase their customers, and appeal to the majority of Muslims, McDonalds needs simply to be more stricter than the HFA guidelines allow.

McDonalds fault was that they lost local interest too quickly or that they had too many chiefs pulling in different direction and not enough Indians.

Muslims would trust them more than the local muslim butchers
if their processes were acceptable to them.

Nando's have 43 restaurants serving Halal chicken and has been certified by the Islamic Institute of Jurisprudence. If McDonalds wanted to do the same, why not simply follow Nando's procedure or get the chickens from the same supplier (Freemans of Newent)?
- - bacardiancoke
  - 2007-10-16 @ 22:20:36
  Have you asked them?
  
  I understand hat your main aim here is to make others aware, which of course follows on my aim of the blog.
  
  But there are things which stand out to me as a consumer, and an outsider to specialist dietary requirements (from vegan to gluten free and beyond)
  
  You mention more than one organisation that can (or cannot) certify meat as halal. I suppose from one point of view McD could point out that they have acted in good faith by approaching HFA. Indeed when I have spoken to several muslim colleagues they themselves recognise them as proper for their diet.
  
  When McDonald's want to certify something as vegetarian they approach the Vegetarian Society (only bagels and porridge is currently classed as suitable for vegetarians)
  
  As for supplier, do you work on commission? From what I've seen in my time behind the golden arches, they will not change a trusted supplier unless something big goes wrong.
  
  I will at some point have to draw a line under this (unfortunately) as I'm conscious that it could potentially get into a theological issue that steps outside the scope of McDonald's - which is the point of my blog.
  
  Your issue is whether the product is indeed Halal, and I implicitly understand the potential implications.
  
  However, upon my amateurish looking into things, the HFA does carry weight and kudos in the mainstream muslim community.
  
  There does appear to be differing organisations with what seems to be differing levels of standard for certification. But how can a mainstream company differentiate when it receives mixed signals from the section of society that it is appealing to?
  
  I work on the principle of reasonableness (just like the justice system - I studied Law)
  
  My personal opinion and suggestion is that it is not reasonable for a company with ties to it's suppliers like McD has to switch quickly, because of the cost if nothing else.
  
  It does appear to have acted in good faith, yet hasn't please everyone, no one ever will. If the issue is with the certifying authority, then issue must be taken with them. After all, you can't hold the Landlord responsible for alcohol being available to 18 year olds.
  
  To tell McDonalds that the HFA is wrong in choosing the guidance of the HFA is well, but akin to telling me that I shouldn't shop at Tesco because of their monopoly. It is an opinion, no matter what the reasoning, that isn't overwhelming.
  
  Maybe the Muslim Council of Great Britain (forgive me for any illiteration, I'm trying to remember the name of the organisation) should come up with a system to solve the confusion for everyone. A mainstream solution for a mainstream problem?
  
  I hope that you will keep us all informed of your progress, be it with McDonald's, HFA or otherwise.
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- sh786 (Visitor)
- http://www.visitsouthall.co.uk
- 2007-10-17 @ 13:34:34
The HFA and HMC guidelines are on the web.
The Islamic Institute of Jurisprudence is similar to the HMC.

Do your "muslim colleagues recognise them as proper for their diet" with or without knowing the exact procedures?

No, I don't work on commission for anybody. I was merely pointing out an already acceptable supplier, If McDonalds did not want to set up their own operation.

McDonalds were well aware of the difference in opinions.

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Chief Executive Steve Easterbrook said: “It is a really complicated area. Different religious groups have different interpretations of what halal meat is. We need to ask about animal welfare and preparing halal meat. We want to be entirely comfortable in genuinely offering it.”
-----------

Why approach the local mosque, get on fine with them, then ignore them, if all they wanted was a HFA certification?

Drawing a line over this is OK as we have covered the ground
and don't want to repeat things.

Afer all, "a mainstream solution for a mainstream problem"
is exactly what all this fuss is about.
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